[Question] Where to submit feature request for Temple Reccomend Desk?

[Izerin]

Hi all,

First post on this forum to my memory, so apologies if I'm in the wrong place. I'm also very verbose in general, but especially so when it comes to writing up these kinds of things; apologies in advance for the word-wall below.

I'm hoping somebody can help me figure out where to submit this feature request for the Recommend Desk lookup process. Maybe I'm just blind, but I'm having a hard time finding where to submit feedback on the technologies and software used in the Temple. I imagine those feedback loops are less publicly exposed by virtue of "It's the temple," but I'd love to get this one in there somehow.

Some context for you:

I am recently engaged, and my fiancé and I have booked the temple appointment already. This is exciting for us obviously, but now the Recommend Desk computer at every single temple we go to flashes an alert to the worker telling them that we might be there for a living ordinance. In principle, I think that this alert is a genuinely phenomenal idea. Seeing it was funny the first time or two, but now it is getting mildly grating for the both of us. We both go to the temple reasonably often, and our wedding is in May, four and a half months out.

• It doesn't matter whether we go to the temple we scheduled our sealing at or not.
• It didn't matter over the holidays that we were two states away from the temple we're scheduled at.
• It doesn't matter whether we go individually or together: The alert pops up, creating confusion.

(For your amusement: My fiancé works at a different temple from where we are being sealed in May. At the start of her most recent shift, she tried to get ahead of the inevitable confusion and immediately explained "It's going to say I'm here for a live sealing; I'm not, I'm here to work my shift in the temple today." The worker, bless their heart, only heard "sealing" and said "Oh you're here for your sealing? How exciting!" )

I'm not here to tell the developers for the Church how to do their jobs. I'm not a software engineer by trade, but I do have some idea of how "fun" distributed systems can be, so this is in no way meant to be a hit piece. That said, I do think that this kind of issue could be prevented pretty much entirely with negligible database time expense.

It seems to me that the current process (at least at a high level, filtering down to my particular journey), works about like this:

1. Poll the member's account to confirm recommend validity.
2. Query a Temple Appointments database (or similar) for the patron's MRN or other internal identifier.
3. Determine whether the query results include a living ordinance.
4. If a living ordinance was found for the patron, alert for the workers that the patron has a valid recommend but should be given additional attention right away.

My suggested/modified process would modify only one step:

1. Poll the member's account to confirm recommend validity.
2. Query a Temple Appointments database (or similar) for the patron's MRN or other internal identifier. (Modification: Mutate the query to include multiple conditions restricting the lookup to the next 7 days and Temple location the query originated from)
3. Determine whether the query results include a living ordinance.
4. If a living ordinance (within the next seven days and at the temple location where the query happened) was found for the patron, alert for the workers that the patron has a valid recommend but should be given additional attention right away.

Something like this:

Current Methodology

Code: Select all

SELECT *
FROM appointments
WHERE patron_id = :patron_id
  AND appointment_type = 'living'

My Suggestion

Code: Select all

SELECT *
FROM appointments
WHERE patron_id = :patron_id
  AND appointment_type = 'living'
  AND appointment_location_id = source_location_id
  AND appointment_time >= NOW()
  AND appointment_time < NOW() + INTERVAL '7 days';

Granted when looking at it that way, I realize you're potentially bogging down server response time for something that's admittedly a statistically less common scenario. Perhaps instead, I could write this up as a model where a list of appointments is returned to the recommend desk computer and the local computer or webapp checks for the same conditions, just locally rather than hogging database time with a needlessly expensive query (but I don't want to rewrite this lol).

---

If you read all that, thanks. Even better, if you know either where I can submit this or you happen to have a connection to somebody who does, I'd be grateful for your help. Even if not, you know what, I said my piece.

Thanks again all!

-SL

[lajackson]

Congratulations on your May plans. And thank you for your attendance and service in the temple, both you and your fiancee.

I would suggest you print out a copy of your post and give it to the temple recorder or his assistant the next time you are in the temple. He will be able to get your recommendation into the system for the developers to address. He is the person who helps at the recommend desk when there is a problem with (or absence of) a temple recommend. The person at the family file desk in the administrative office area will also be able to get the message to the recorder.

[russellhltn]

It's not the developers who write the "business rules", but the higher ups.

There may be a concern that once cleared for a living ordinance, that the couple may change plans. Like eloping.

That said, it strikes me as odd that the Recommend Desk is acting like this for every couple that is planning a temple wedding. I can't find anything in the Handbook about when the recommend for living ordinance is given, but I wonder if it's unusual in your area to have it done that far in advance.

[sbradshaw]

I wonder if it's worldwide practice to schedule a specific time at a specific temple for the sealing, or if that's mainly just a help for busy temples in areas with a lot of members.

[lajackson]

I wonder if it's worldwide practice to schedule a specific time at a specific temple for the sealing, or if that's mainly just a help for busy temples in areas with a lot of members.

Normally, all living ordinances are scheduled in advance at a specific time in a specific temple. This allows the temple to properly schedule and prepare a sealing room and the temple workers needed to perform the ordinance.

Still, a couple can walk in with the proper recommends but without a reservation, and the temple will do the best they are able to accommodate them, although there may be some delay.

Other than making sure that temple facilities and workers are available, I think the most common reason for scheduling in advance is so that friends of the couple may also participate when that is desired.

[johnshaw]

Hi all,

First post on this forum to my memory, so apologies if I'm in the wrong place. I'm also very verbose in general, but especially so when it comes to writing up these kinds of things; apologies in advance for the word-wall below.

I'm hoping somebody can help me figure out where to submit this feature request for the Recommend Desk lookup process. Maybe I'm just blind, but I'm having a hard time finding where to submit feedback on the technologies and software used in the Temple. I imagine those feedback loops are less publicly exposed by virtue of "It's the temple," but I'd love to get this one in there somehow.

Some context for you:

I am recently engaged, and my fiancé and I have booked the temple appointment already. This is exciting for us obviously, but now the Recommend Desk computer at every single temple we go to flashes an alert to the worker telling them that we might be there for a living ordinance. In principle, I think that this alert is a genuinely phenomenal idea. Seeing it was funny the first time or two, but now it is getting mildly grating for the both of us. We both go to the temple reasonably often, and our wedding is in May, four and a half months out.

• It doesn't matter whether we go to the temple we scheduled our sealing at or not.
• It didn't matter over the holidays that we were two states away from the temple we're scheduled at.
• It doesn't matter whether we go individually or together: The alert pops up, creating confusion.

(For your amusement: My fiancé works at a different temple from where we are being sealed in May. At the start of her most recent shift, she tried to get ahead of the inevitable confusion and immediately explained "It's going to say I'm here for a live sealing; I'm not, I'm here to work my shift in the temple today." The worker, bless their heart, only heard "sealing" and said "Oh you're here for your sealing? How exciting!" )

I'm not here to tell the developers for the Church how to do their jobs. I'm not a software engineer by trade, but I do have some idea of how "fun" distributed systems can be, so this is in no way meant to be a hit piece. That said, I do think that this kind of issue could be prevented pretty much entirely with negligible database time expense.

It seems to me that the current process (at least at a high level, filtering down to my particular journey), works about like this:

1. Poll the member's account to confirm recommend validity.
2. Query a Temple Appointments database (or similar) for the patron's MRN or other internal identifier.
3. Determine whether the query results include a living ordinance.
4. If a living ordinance was found for the patron, alert for the workers that the patron has a valid recommend but should be given additional attention right away.

My suggested/modified process would modify only one step:

1. Poll the member's account to confirm recommend validity.
2. Query a Temple Appointments database (or similar) for the patron's MRN or other internal identifier. (Modification: Mutate the query to include multiple conditions restricting the lookup to the next 7 days and Temple location the query originated from)
3. Determine whether the query results include a living ordinance.
4. If a living ordinance (within the next seven days and at the temple location where the query happened) was found for the patron, alert for the workers that the patron has a valid recommend but should be given additional attention right away.

Something like this:

Current Methodology

Code: Select all

SELECT *
FROM appointments
WHERE patron_id = :patron_id
  AND appointment_type = 'living'

My Suggestion

Code: Select all

SELECT *
FROM appointments
WHERE patron_id = :patron_id
  AND appointment_type = 'living'
  AND appointment_location_id = source_location_id
  AND appointment_time >= NOW()
  AND appointment_time < NOW() + INTERVAL '7 days';

Granted when looking at it that way, I realize you're potentially bogging down server response time for something that's admittedly a statistically less common scenario. Perhaps instead, I could write this up as a model where a list of appointments is returned to the recommend desk computer and the local computer or webapp checks for the same conditions, just locally rather than hogging database time with a needlessly expensive query (but I don't want to rewrite this lol).

---

If you read all that, thanks. Even better, if you know either where I can submit this or you happen to have a connection to somebody who does, I'd be grateful for your help. Even if not, you know what, I said my piece.

Thanks again all!

-SL

Your cause is just but they will do nothing for you. Developers don't even decide what to do, only the Temple Department and they only get their turn to have developers work on their system about every-other year. This is mostly a result of the magoo kinda paying attention that humans often do. EVERY LIVING ORDINANCE is identified to the temple shift in their pre-shift meeting. Of course that might surprise us, but it appears that the only thing that really could be done is to alert those at the Desk that if they see something like that and you didn't hear an ordinance existed, then don't worry about it.

Also, know that those at the Recommend Desk rotate through. I've been work a shift for nearly 6 months now and I've been at the Baptism desk twice and the Front Desk once in those entire times. I hope you understand that these are people that often are barely aware of what they're supposed to do.

I Love you came with a suggested fix, it should really be easy, but it's what it is.