Tech Forum

house of order? Whoever manages MLS and the lds.org directories may be in need of repentance

stumpffiddle wrote:house of order? Whoever manages MLS and the lds.org directories may be in need of repentance

I find things to be pretty orderly. These computers and websites are doing exactly what they have been programmed to do. If there is something in particular that you are having trouble doing, and you have a calling that you feel should allow you to do it, there are those here who would be able to help you figure out how to accomplish it.

As for the need of repentance, I think those matters are best left between the developers and their bishops. [grin]

stumpffiddle wrote:house of order? Whoever manages MLS and the lds.org directories may be in need of repentance

I'll bet whoever ordered the removal of the feature for most of the users was considerably higher than the developers. Probably a GA or a lawyer. Call them to repentance at your own risk.

I really need to be able to export households. The Relief Society presidency is in charge of the Ward Christmas party, and I need to go through the ward list to determine who gets taken or mailed an invitation, etc. It's absurd that they removed this. It is very needed. I can do something similar in the Leader Resources, but why can't I add address to it? Why would anyone need age in a report more than address? I can export to pdf 1 column and now my software developer husband is writing a script to put it into a csv, but what a waste of his and my time when we could just export it no problem before.

cheney13 wrote:I really need to be able to export households. The Relief Society presidency is in charge of the Ward Christmas party, and I need to go through the ward list to determine who gets taken or mailed an invitation, etc. It's absurd that they removed this. It is very needed. I can do something similar in the Leader Resources, but why can't I add address to it? Why would anyone need age in a report more than address? I can export to pdf 1 column and now my software developer husband is writing a script to put it into a csv, but what a waste of his and my time when we could just export it no problem before.

It may seem absurd to you that this was removed, but I'm sure the Church had very good reasons.

In any case, another option for obtaining ward lists is for you to work with your ward clerk. He has access to export information from either MLS or the Directory. He can then remove any sensitive information (which certainly isn't needed for your purpose) and give it to you.

Christmas Cards to other ward members.
Why is it gone. It was there last year.

fredccox wrote:Why is it gone. It was there last year.

Read the rest of the thread for that information.

I'm confused. I skimmed this thread but I can't seem to find an exact answer on why the option to export the CSV file isn't there and why there is a discrepancy between this support page and what's actually happening on LDS Tools. I need the CSV file. I am an assistant executive secretary (placed as an assistant ward clerk in MLS) for my ward and would have figured I would naturally have access, according to posts here. But the support page I link does not say that special privileges are needed. If this has changed, it must be reflected on the support page, since that's what it's there for. Anyway, I need the CSV file because of the limitations of LDS Tools. I can export to a PDF, sure, but I cannot do much with it. At best, it is limited to listing members by last name alphabetically with photos and other info but we need our directory organized by apartment for those with applicable callings to easily use it, so I am using a third party program to do this. I will be updating the directory often, I need to be able to get the CSV often. The purpose of LDS Tools is to make our lives and callings easier, but this is not the case and it is clear that many are finding this frustrating and limiting. Will this be fixed? Logically it makes no sense that the ability to export the CSV has been removed for regular/non-clerk members. If we can SEE the directory since we're in the ward, and we can even EXPORT the PDF, why can't we get the CSV?

natelovesyou wrote:Logically it makes no sense that the ability to export the CSV has been removed for regular/non-clerk members. If we can SEE the directory since we're in the ward, and we can even EXPORT the PDF, why can't we get the CSV?

There is definitely a greater ability to misuse a CSV than a PDF. For example, it's simple to use a CSV to create an inappropriate mass mailing. Doing the same with the PDF required retyping all the information or at least using OCR to extract text and then reformat. Basically, the same convenience that you want can be used to misuse the information.

The church has to balance convenience against protecting sensitive information against misuse. The general authorities that decide these things have to consider not only the needs and best interests of the leaders and members but also privacy laws in many countries (many of which are much more strict than in the US).

I have no inside information on what happened to cause the restriction over what used to be available. It might have been legal, there may have been some incident or it may have just been an internal review. But I wouldn't expect it to come back for general membership. It's possible access might be expanded to certain other ward leadership. This is just speculation based on increased access to LCR for organization leaders. But I wouldn't count on that either. Access to the CSV export in MLS has long been strongly restricted and there has even been talk from developers that it might be removed entirely. The trend has been for less access to data in CSV format.

This may also be driven by a desire to reduce or eliminate the use of membership data with 3rd party software tools where the church can't control how and where the information goes.

eblood66 wrote:

natelovesyou wrote:Logically it makes no sense that the ability to export the CSV has been removed for regular/non-clerk members. If we can SEE the directory since we're in the ward, and we can even EXPORT the PDF, why can't we get the CSV?

There is definitely a greater ability to misuse a CSV than a PDF. For example, it's simple to use a CSV to create an inappropriate mass mailing. Doing the same with the PDF required retyping all the information or at least using OCR to extract text and then reformat. Basically, the same convenience that you want can be used to misuse the information.

The church has to balance convenience against protecting sensitive information against misuse. The general authorities that decide these things have to consider not only the needs and best interests of the leaders and members but also privacy laws in many countries (many of which are much more strict than in the US).

I have no inside information on what happened to cause the restriction over what used to be available. It might have been legal, there may have been some incident or it may have just been an internal review. But I wouldn't expect it to come back for general membership. It's possible access might be expanded to certain other ward leadership. This is just speculation based on increased access to LCR for organization leaders. But I wouldn't count on that either. Access to the CSV export in MLS has long been strongly restricted and there has even been talk from developers that it might be removed entirely. The trend has been for less access to data in CSV format.

This may also be driven by a desire to reduce or eliminate the use of membership data with 3rd party software tools where the church can't control how and where the information goes.

Thank you for the very helpful reply! Well, I feel kinda helpless. Perhaps my ward clerk can either fix my permissions, or give me the CSV file every Sunday or something. From my understanding, however, it isn't just the ward clerk that can export it, but also assistant ward clerks and executive secretaries, correct? I've read other comments on this site pertaining to similar issues with LDS Tools permissions for even second counselors who can't do much, so just checking. If I'm given assistant ward clerk or exec. sec. permissions, can I get the CSV myself?