Ward Maps

[Mowen-p40]

Hi all,

Like most LDS church members I live outside the USA.

This script seems to require data exported from the (still North America only) Stake and Ward websites.

More widely available to church members is the church's MLS software, from which I can export data.

I'd like to build a converter from MLS format to "Stake and Ward websites" format so more people can use this script.

Can someone please post the format of that file?

(Don't forget, don't post any private data!)

I'm guessing as long as I get the data in the right format it will work - kevandcan? Or is the geocoding using some American-only service?

[thedqs]

The geocoder uses the world avaliable mapping service like google or yahoo (I forget which one he uses). So as long as those are avaliable to your area then I am sure it will work fine. As for the format they changeds it around from when I used it from MIS.

[mwallred]

Yes, there has been for some time. But you must only run the "local" version of the script. It is ok to export data from MLS and run it through a utility you trust locally on your own machine or a ward computer. The problem was when this was being hosted on a web server that was not a church-hosted server.

As I understand the pollicy, we are not allowed to send our membership data to any outside company. This would include Google, Yahoo, etc.

It looks to me like the standalone script still calls upon Yahoo maps to get the mapping data. It sends all of the membership data to them in order to generate the map. Isn't this exactly what the policy was supposed to prevent? How is this significantly different than sending the data to Kevin's server and then having him send it to Yahoo? The only difference is that we are only sending it to one outside service instead of two. One is still one too many.

Even if they aren't using or even storing it now (and I don't know whether or not they are), it doesn't mean that Yahoo (or whoever) won't be keeping all our data in order to create online phone directories or for any other reason in the future.

IMHO, if we want to do any mapping of our ward members (and I'm in the process of doing just that right now) we need to have complete privacy of our membership data. That means having mapping software installed on the PC and generating all our maps locally, without going to ANY online services.

Am I wrong? Is it acceptable to send all of our membership data to Yahoo so they can generate maps for us?

Is anyone out there using any commercial mapping software to generate ward membership maps using only the local PC? That's how Google Earth works, right? Or do they also require data to be send up to the big Google server farm?

Thanks,

Marty

[mkmurray]

It looks to me like the standalone script still calls upon Yahoo maps to get the mapping data. It sends all of the membership data to them in order to generate the map.

Not exactly; read the entirety of this thread and you will see a discussion about this issue. The conclusion was that the addresses or coordinates are being sent to Yahoo, but not any other member information. An address really means nothing if there is no member name (or similar information) associated with it. There is nothing on Yahoo's side to identifiy it as member information, it's just a bunch of addresses to them. Also if the information was sniffed on it's way to Yahoo, there's still nothing to signify it is member addresses. The other conclusion was that it is likely Yahoo doesn't store the locations on their servers anyway. If somebody does find a statement to the contrary, please post it here for all to discuss.

Is anyone out there using any commercial mapping software to generate ward membership maps using only the local PC? That's how Google Earth works, right? Or do they also require data to be send up to the big Google server farm?

Either in this thread or another thread on this forum, somebody talked about using Google Earth in this way. I think it's a great idea, I just don't remember if anyone actually made something or not. I don't think Google sends the data up, I think it is done locally. Again, someone correct me if you find the opposite out there.

[mwallred]

Not exactly; read the entirety of this thread and you will see a discussion about this issue. The conclusion was that the addresses or coordinates are being sent to Yahoo, but not any other member information. An address really means nothing if there is no member name (or similar information) associated with it. There is nothing on Yahoo's side to identifiy it as member information, it's just a bunch of addresses to them. Also if the information was sniffed on it's way to Yahoo, there's still nothing to signify it is member addresses. The other conclusion was that it is likely Yahoo doesn't store the locations on their servers anyway. If somebody does find a statement to the contrary, please post it here for all to discuss.

Actually, I did read the entire thread, including the policy statement that was issued. I'm no script expert so I didn't attempt to analyze the whole thing to see what it was sending. I just assumed that in order for Yahoo to put the identifying information (e.g. member name) on the pin flag or into any popup windows on the map that it would need to have that data sent to it. It didn't seem real logical to think that the client side would be handling that part of it.

Also, the fact that it isn't likely that Yahoo doesn't store the data is irrelevant. IIRC, the policy stated that we couldn't send member data to another server, or maybe just ones that could be storing it. Do we need to check Yahoo's policy page every time before we use their mapping service this way? Storage keeps getting cheaper and the desire for data higher.

Does anybody remember when Google was inadvertently releasing all kinds of private data due to a bug on their system? Do we want that to happen to us? I'd rather err on the side of caution.

Either in this thread or another thread on this forum, somebody talked about using Google Earth in this way. I think it's a great idea, I just don't remember if anyone actually made something or not. I don't think Google sends the data up, I think it is done locally. Again, someone correct me if you find the opposite out there.

That's what I thought about Google Earth- you don't even need an internet connection once you download all the map data for your area, so you can put pins all over the map without any data getting back to Google. Software like Streets and Trips and maybe even some of the Nav system packages could do it as well while keeping all the data local.

[mkmurray]

Actually, I did read the entire thread, including the policy statement that was issued. I'm no script expert so I didn't attempt to analyze the whole thing to see what it was sending. I just assumed that in order for Yahoo to put the identifying information (e.g. member name) on the pin flag or into any popup windows on the map that it would need to have that data sent to it. It didn't seem real logical to think that the client side would be handling that part of it.

Also, the fact that it isn't likely that Yahoo doesn't store the data is irrelevant. IIRC, the policy stated that we couldn't send member data to another server, or maybe just ones that could be storing it. Do we need to check Yahoo's policy page every time before we use their mapping service this way? Storage keeps getting cheaper and the desire for data higher.

Does anybody remember when Google was inadvertently releasing all kinds of private data due to a bug on their system? Do we want that to happen to us? I'd rather err on the side of caution.

Point well taken.

Tom, because of the silence from Church employees when the discussion was had, the community decided this VB script solution was secure enough to align with the posted policy. Should the security of this solution be revisited, with Church input this time?

[WelchTC]

Point well taken.

Tom, because of the silence from Church employees when the discussion was had, the community decided this VB script solution was secure enough to align with the posted policy. Should the security of this solution be revisited, with Church input this time?

Sometimes silence speaks volumes

To my knowledge the Church does not have an official policy about this particular script. However confidential information should remain such.

[Tom speaking personally] I use mapping software all of the time. I'm in a stake calling and I may need to drop something off to a member in another ward. I use google maps or yahoo to find where a person lives. Does that violate Church policy? I don't think so. However sometimes we are left to our own inspiration and revelation.

Tom

[terrysackett]

So you have the VBScript file and your MLS membership export CSV file?

All you should have to do if you're running on XP is double-click the VBS file. There isn't any installation of a program. Are you getting an kind of error? Are your running an OS other than XP?

When I went to his site, there were instructions on what to do if you are not on XP or if you have Adobe Flash errors.

I neglected to say "Thanks" for your answer to my post, so thanks! Oh, and yes, I'm running XP Pro, SP2.

I did not know until then that .vbs files are executable files, so I had not thought to double-click on the file. I guess I am the only computer user that did not know that because there wasn't any instruction to double-click that file, unless I completely missed it.

Anyway, that is what made it work, and it's a cool application. Now my question is, Is there a way to zoom in on the map or, better yet, make the map larger so it is easier to see where there are names blocking other names?

[mkmurray]

Now my question is, Is there a way to zoom in on the map or, better yet, make the map larger so it is easier to see where there are names blocking other names?

Right-click on the vbs file and choose "Open With". You'll want to open it with an editor (Notepad is easy), but only this time, so if you get the dialog box that says "Always use this program to open this type of file", don't select the checkbox (otherwise, I don't think you will be able to double-click it anymore).

If you are using Notepad, turn on the Status Bar so you can see the line number of where your cursor is (under View on the menu). Go down to lines 339-342 and you will find this javascript code that interfaces with Yahoo:

Code: Select all

tsHTM.WriteLine "<script type=""text/javascript"">"
tsHTM.WriteLine " // Create and display Map object at the address and with zoom level 3 "
tsHTM.WriteLine " // Include your application ID."
tsHTM.WriteLine " var map = new Map(""mapContainer"", ""parkwayward"", """ & pMapCenterAddress & """, 3); "

There is a comment there that says it is set at zoom level 3. Modify the 3 on the last line to whatever you want. I imagine you'll want to do 2 or 1 in order to zoom in. Save the file and run it.

Here is a reference to the Yahoo Map API regarding the function call you are modifying: http://developer.yahoo.com/maps/flash/V ... e.html#Map

According to the documentation, the fourth parameter is the zoom level and it can be an integer value from 1 to 17.

I haven't tried this myself, but I made a little map application using Google Maps API a few years ago, so I can somewhat tell what's going on. If it doesn't work, it will be easy to undo the change.

[fraserredmond]

Hi all,

Like most LDS church members I live outside the USA.

This script seems to require data exported from the (still North America only) Stake and Ward websites.

More widely available to church members is the church's MLS software, from which I can export data.

I'd like to build a converter from MLS format to "Stake and Ward websites" format so more people can use this script.

Can someone please post the format of that file?

(Don't forget, don't post any private data!)

I'm guessing as long as I get the data in the right format it will work - kevandcan? Or is the geocoding using some American-only service?

Mowen, take a look at this thread. I built an alternative to this map-maker - uses google instead of yahoo (works better outside america) and has settings for both MLS and LUWS membership downloads. It also has filtering and some other options. The resulting file can be viewed in Google Earth.

http://tech.lds.org/forum/showpost.php? ... stcount=10